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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:42 pm 
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MrLongDistance wrote:
Incidents like this is sickening.... abuse of power is sickening. What I could not understand is why Valley Golf Course did not call the police the fact that they saw everything. They should know what to do in situations like this. I'd say to the De la Paz's, file a complaint against Valley Golf as well.
Ban the Mayor and the Secretary ( they can build their own golf course and play over there every single day by themselves). Boycott Valley Golf Club and they should also be fined for not doing their job.


It is very easy to pass on comments like this without ever knowing the true picture. Angry comments like this serve no purpose. Ever wonder if the Pangandaman's were not public official, would it receive the same kind of publicity? I think it is best for us to just wait for the official resolution of this issue and learn from it instead of ranting here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Tobul1 wrote:
the de la paz family was interviewed by Pinky Webb on umagang kay ganda this morning. ABS-CBN did try to get the Pangandamans but they were unavailable at the time.

From what I watched, nothing was really different from what I have read already. I think the element that stands out in this incident is the beating up of Bino. He said that he was traumatized by the guns and the beatings.


Well, I can't wait for the official findings to finally come out.



Typical of ABS-CBN.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:39 pm 
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I just spent some time with the head of the fact-finding committee. He has submitted all pertinent facts to the board and leaves it to them to make the necessary decision based on all the facts. I will outline the facts to you as it was outlined to me. Rest assured that the facts were obtained from all parties involved and all witnesses at each incident site. The statements were obtained both by the valley fact-finding group and by the NBI as well. Testimonies were recorded, verified, and re-verified. Fortunately for the parties involved, there were always witnesses to give supporting statements on the events as they occurred.

I will compose the outline shortly as it will be lengthy but just to whet your appetite or get you thinking, you will be quite surprised with the findings. Let's put it this way, the people we thought of as villains weren't quite what they were depicted to be. and the supposed protagonists may have yet been quite as factual in their testimony as it turns out to be. Even our 14-year old isn't as innocent and "prayerful" when all the details come out. just give me a few minutes....

In the interest of making sure that no facts might be left undisclosed, I will take it upon myself to start from the very beginning. Firstly let us start by saying that on or at about 12:40 p.m., the party of the Pangandaman's registered at the starter's area. They registered for 2 flights comprised of 4 individuals per flight. Unfortunately, they still had 2 members of their group that had not yet arrived, so they initially tee'd off as 2 successive threesomes. The starter and marshall were informed that the 2 individuals that had not yet arrived would just catch up with them in the fairway. On or at about 1:05 p.m. the Dela Paz group registered initially as a twosome but since this isn't normally allowed, they registered as a 3-some even if the elder Mr. Dela Paz was not really going to play.

When the Dela Paz 3-some was playing on hole number 3, they were passed by 2 golf carts containing Mayor Pangandaman and his companion (in one cart) and the caddies being brought by one of the starter personnell. The Pangandaman's did not ask permission to drive through because they did not want to disturb the Dela Paz's who were in the middle of the fairway. Upon reaching the green of the 3rd hole, Mr. Dela Paz asked the caddie why the people in the cart just went through. Mayor Pangandaman who was already positioned at the 4th hole, personally informed Mr. Dela Paz that they were part of 2 foursomes. At this point, Mr. Dela Paz said "ah okay, courtesy lang naman". This was verified by the caddies. Mr. Pangandaman said that he did not disturb them anymore because the player was about to hit. At this point, Mayor Pangandaman thought everything was okay so he proceeded to the 4th hole (Par 3) where his other flightmates were. In the records it says that Mr. Pangandaman was not yet even done pitching into the green when a ball landed near his 8-year old child so they immediately made sure the child was secured in the cart. ( For those unaware of the common practice at Valley Golf, on every par 3, the group behind you is signaled to hit into the green once everyone from your group is already on the green) Until you have been cleared to hit by the group ahead, you should not hit into the green. It is common sense and basic precautionary procedure.

In this particular case, we have no corroborative testimony. One set of caddies say they were given clearance, while the other say that no clearance was given as of yet when the ball/s had landed.

The Pangandaman's claim that the same situation happened in the 5th hole (Par5). Even the caddied confirmed this. At this time, Bambee Dela Paz had called the Marshall to tell him that the flight behind them was complaining about why their pace was slow and that the cause of the delay was the 5-some in front of them. Shortly thereafter, a marshall on his motorcycle appeared and approached the Pangandaman's and asked if they were playing as a fivesome to which the Mayor said no. "We are 2 foursomes". Nonetheless, the Pangandaman's had already agreed among themselves that they would rather the Dela Paz's play through. The Mayor was even quoted saying to his Father. " magagaling yung mga bata at malakas pumalo, baka mabagalan sa atin" They informed the marshall that they would just let the Dela Paz group play through and the marshall informed the Mr. Dela Paz of this. ( Just as an aside, the investigative group actually asked the group behind Dela paz if indeed they had complained about the slow down and the group said that the y said no such thing to the Dela paz flight. They were not even in contact at anytime before they arrived at the tee house to see the fight and eventually help stop it) When the Delapaz group reached the green of hole 5, the caddies of the 2 kids gave them their drivers so that they would waste no time playing through. The Mayor, who at that time was sitting along with their companions, stood up to personally tell Mr. Dela Paz to play through. Caddies, and the tee house server claim that the Mayor told Dela Paz na "Mauna na ho kayo" and walked to approach Dela Paz, The response of Dela Paz was "Huwag mo akong pagtaasan ng boses" Dela Paz began to question the Mayor why they were playing as a fivesome. The Mayor said that this was not the case but Dela Paz was insisting and even said (again corroborated by the caddies) "Linoloko mo ba ako?" "Member ka ba dito, Kilala mo ba ako?" (as you can see, this question did not come from Pangandaman. In fact, in the recorded testimony, this is exactly what Pangandaman claimed delapaz had said to him and yet in Delapaz' recorded statement, he never said that the mayor asked him " kilala mo ba ako" Completely different from when the media was already involved.

When Delapaz was posing the above question, the mayor was heard to say. "Sandali lang, hindi naman tayo nagaaway dito. Akala ko ba naayos na natin yung issue kanina sa hole 3? At about this point Delapaz closed his umbrella and then poked the mayor on his stomach using the pointed end ( some caddies say Dela Paz swung the umbrella and some say that he poked the Mayor) The investigative board asked Dela Paz what he did, he said that he poked the Mayor in self defense. When asked who was attacking him, Dela Paz said that he was being surrounded by 4 men. The caddies and other witnesses on hand said that when the umbrella incident happened, it was only Dela Paz and the mayor that were talking. The other parties were in the tee house about 15-20 yards away. The Mayor says he was poked and so he backed off and just as he was about to be poked again, his brother, Hussein ran and attacked Delapaz and hit Delapaz knocking him to the ground.( At this point the commotion took place. One of the things observed is 14-year old Bino hit the Mayor with his driver. Apparently, the mayor parried with his forearm and hand so this is where he sustaned the injury. In the process also, Hussein was being pulled off the older dela paz by his 2 children but again Bino was seen to hit Hussein in the face and head while Bambee had scratched the other side of Husseins face. At this time also, witnesses say, that 3 or 4 other members of the flight excluding the Secretary, the 8-year old boy, and the girlfriend of Hussein were involved in attacking or subduing the older dela paz but this lasted very shortly and when the combatants had been separated the existing people in the tee house as well as the new flight that was playing behind the dela paz's.

At this point the Secretary told the delapaz group to leave so as to avoid any more trouble. As the elder delapaz was leaving he was heard calling someone on his cellphone saying " may away kami, pumunta kayo dito"
No one knew who delapaz was speaking to as he walked away towards the main clubhouse. A few minutes later, the secretary and his group decided to end the day instead of continuing to play. When they got to the clubhouse, Hussein wanted to wash up because he was bleeding in the neck area. As he got near the reception area, he saw delapaz and was heard to have said "O, nandito pa pala kayo" to which Dela Paz said "Hindi pa tapos ito gaganti pa kami". At this point, Bino got in between his Dad and Hussein while saying " Tatandaan ka namin" (None of the witnesses in the clubhouse, and there were many, ever saw Bino kneel and say that he was only 14 years old at maawa na sila) On the contrary, Bino was acting like anything but a helpless child. He sounded tough, angry, and antagonistic enough that the fight broke out again. At this point, the bodyguards of the Mayor ran into the clubhouse via the poolside entrance. When questioned about this, the mayor said that one was his driver and the other was his "Yayo". As far as the board was concerned, the "Yayo" was also a bodyguard. Said Yayo came into the clubhouse with a clutchbag containing a gun and brought out the gun without pointing it at anyone. The Mayor immediately instructed him that there was no need for guns and the gun was put back. During the investigation, the Mayor said that the handgun was his and that his "yayo" was likely going to give it to him but he declined. Upon instructing his "yayo", the man just stayed in one corner. At this time the wife of Dela Paz and his other son arrived. The son was wielding a baseball bat and the wife had a knife which she pulled out of a scabbard. These two were subdued by security but they were verbally threatening the Pangandaman's during this time. There was also a reported incident where the driver of the mayor ran out and came back with a suitcase containing a supposed armalite as claimed by valley security. The driver never pulled it out or pointed it at anyone but it was readily accesible[/i]


Last edited by rge on Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:31 pm 
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rge wrote:
I just spent some time with the head of the fact-finding committee. He has submitted all pertinent facts to the board and leaves it to them to make the necessary decision based on all the facts. I will outline the facts to you as it was outlined to me. Rest assured that the facts were obtained from all parties involved and all witnesses at each incident site. The statements were obtained both by the valley fact-finding group and by the NBI as well. Testimonies were recorded, verified, and re-verified. Fortunately for the parties involved, there were always witnesses to give supporting statements on the events as they occurred.

I will compose the outline shortly as it will be lengthy but just to whet your appetite or get you thinking, you will be quite surprised with the findings. Let's put it this way, the people we thought of as villains weren't quite what they were depicted to be. and the supposed protagonists may have yet been quite as factual in their testimony as it turns out to be. Even our 14-year old isn't as innocent and "prayerful" when all the details come out. just give me a few minutes....


Finally!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:00 pm 
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finally let the truth be told will wait for it

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:08 pm 
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kaching111 wrote:
"Trust the local authorities"? Pardon me for asking this parteeboy, but how long was it since you left the Philippines?

Of course I know you can't trust the local authorities. I was just saying this rhetorically because this is what needs to happen. If anything good can come out of this, I just hope it opens people's eyes so that more people will work towards a society where we can eventually trust:

a. That local authorities are responsible enough to protect the people.
b. Bodyguards are professionals who understand their job it is to keep certain high profile high risk people from harms way and nothing more.

Anyway, rge seems to be ready to come up with the scoop so let me not steal his thunder.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:42 pm 
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I just posted the details and attached it to my previous post so just scroll back to read

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm 
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rge wrote:
I just posted the details and attached it to my previous post so just scroll back to read


Wow! :shock: :o

I don't know what to say. If this is all true, all I can say is:

WHAT A STUPID DAD!

He not only put his son and daughter in harms way, he also got his wife and son who were safely at home in harms way as well. :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:00 pm 
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parteeboy wrote:
rge wrote:
I just posted the details and attached it to my previous post so just scroll back to read


Wow! :shock: :o

I don't know what to say. If this is all true, all I can say is:

WHAT A STUPID DAD!

He not only put his son and daughter in harms way, he also got his wife and son who were safely at home in harms way as well. :shock:



I CAN ONLY AGREE

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:05 pm 
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I will add further details as I gain the desire and energy to do so. In the meantime, suffice it to say, that many were a bit quick to judge the identities of the antagonists and protagonists in this play. This is why I said that we need to temper our opinions with more facts. Jick says that we should just modify our perceptions as the facts unfold but I tend to disagree with this methodology. It is precisely this methodology that leads to the mirroring of Bambee's blogs which paints a very singular dimension of the incident. In fact, if I may dare say, a very conveniently twisted version of the incident. Whether this was done wittingly or unwittingly, I cannot say. If the testimony was borne of very powerful emotions at that time, one can understand how the perception may veer in this direction. Unfortunately, this is not the true picture but the Pangandaman's have already been dragged through the mud and judged guilty way before the right verdict has been arrived at. This too, in my eyes, is a travesty of justice. That it happens to someone that we are less likely to be sympathetic to, does not make it any less wrong. Just my 2 cents.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Posted this in the Valley Thread:

dutch15 wrote:
I have been following this news ever since it broke out. I have also read all the different accounts written and said about the incident. Here is my opinion for whatever its worth:

I can understand Joagster decision not to say anything. The trouble with this issue is that so many opinions have already been generated to make for a balanced assessment of the matter. Even if Joagster gives his own account, there will be another person who will dispute this. Its now your word against mine thing. Let the Valley management conduct their investigation and write their own judgment. We are not in the position to blame anybody. The best we can do is to learn from this incident and hope that it never happens to us or any other golfer.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:36 pm 
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thanks you rge and yes we do go to conclusion early now a days and I am sad to say I stand corrected and Pangandaman did show true constraint on the matter.

As for De La Paz hope he learns from this and will see what the courts will say

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:57 pm 
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I may not say that the Pangandaman's exhibited exceptional restraint but I will certainly agree whole heartedly that they only acted as any normal human being would react to such an attack. They did not exercise any "excessive" show of force as has been painted of them in the initial reports.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Great account of the incident, Ray. My compliments. I heard the same details third-hand from my sources. I agree with the others; Mr. de la Paz was foolish to pick a fight with his children present.

The revelation of these facts cast a severe shadow on the Bambee's blog, don't they?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:51 pm 
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MGB wrote:
Great account of the incident, Ray. My compliments. I heard the same details third-hand from my sources. I agree with the others; Mr. de la Paz was foolish to pick a fight with his children present.

The revelation of these facts cast a severe shadow on the Bambee's blog, don't they?


I believe so! Just as the other e-mails and news accounts (like the one by Ding Marcelo of Manila Bulletin) which are also untrue.

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